I wrote this response:
On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 08:59 PM, Doug wrote:
Friend's dad,
This is a very good question: "What then would allow me, a sinner, to think that I have a "complete" picture?"
The short answer is that the Holy Spirit makes the picture complete for you, and me. He is the one that draws us to Him and helps us understand the scriptures.
Just some examples to illustrate my point.
1) You're completely right that the disciples didn't understand half (maybe 3/4's ;) of what Jesus said to them while He was alive. The main reason for which was because they hadn't been given the Holy Spirit yet. Once God was living in them and through them in the Spirit, they could recall all that Jesus had taught them and apply it.
2) John 6 and 10 (and Romans 8, Ephesians 1, etc...) teach that the Spirit draws us and changes our hearts to understand. Ezekiel 36:24-27 is a great OT passage that describes how the Lord changes our hearts and makes it possible for us to understand the mercy of God that we can attain if we confess our sins via repentance and believe in Him.
I don't quite get your meaning when you say: "Our perception(revelation) Of the Old Testament is different than the New." Are you saying that the OT and the NT teach different stories or represent different concepts of God? If so, I think this is a common misconception. One that my own uncle and I were discussing just this weekend as a matter of fact.
There are lots of ways to address this concern. Perhaps the easiest is when Jesus says in John 5 that '...Moses wrote about me...'. Jesus is making clear here that the intent of the OT was to be the womb or the incubator to explain the death and resurrection of Jesus. When Moses wrote the law, including the sacrificial system, he did it to illustrate Jesus because the ancient Hebrews (and us for that matter) wouldn't have understood Jesus' sacrifice without a picture of animal sacrifices to set the stage. The passover lamb is the best example of this. The lamb was without blemish and was sacrificed to protect the people, Just like Jesus 1500 years later. Romans 3 clarifies that God never intended for sins to be absolved by the lamb, but that its death pointed to Jesus.
So anyway, long story short, the best way to find out if what the Bible says is true, is it test it. I do this every day. I look at my life and I see the sin and desire to be selfish within me. I know that this causes a problem with me and God because it shows my betrayal of His rightful kingship. The Bible teaches me that the only solution to that sin problem is Jesus' death and my acceptance of it's power to save me, not through my efforts to get right with God.
Can I challenge you to read through the book of Romans and shoot some questions out to this email group as you go? I think it will cover many of your questions and perhaps raise some new ones.
Its a pleasure talking with you. I am continuing to pray for you.
--doug ><>
Monday, June 14, 2010
Email Apologetics 3
My friend's dad sent this one.
On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Friend's Dad wrote:
Doug,
It is good to see that my son has friends in the “Spirit”. Since your study is in Hebrews, my question is, I think, fitting. I believe that Our God is unchanging and that God exists outside the boundary of time, but we are not. The latter I know. Therefore, it must be our perception of God that is subject to change. Our perception(revelation) Of the Old Testament is different than the New. God came to us in person. Jesus is the only Son. He clearly new his mission. However, even with Jesus as personal teacher, His disciples still misinterpreted His meaning. What then would allow me, a sinner, to think that I have a “complete” picture? This is what my reason compels me to think. My faith must do the rest.
Friend's Dad
On Mon, Jun 14, 2010 at 11:59 AM, Friend's Dad wrote:
Doug,
It is good to see that my son has friends in the “Spirit”. Since your study is in Hebrews, my question is, I think, fitting. I believe that Our God is unchanging and that God exists outside the boundary of time, but we are not. The latter I know. Therefore, it must be our perception of God that is subject to change. Our perception(revelation) Of the Old Testament is different than the New. God came to us in person. Jesus is the only Son. He clearly new his mission. However, even with Jesus as personal teacher, His disciples still misinterpreted His meaning. What then would allow me, a sinner, to think that I have a “complete” picture? This is what my reason compels me to think. My faith must do the rest.
Friend's Dad
Email Apologetics 2
Email number two is from me.
On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Doug wrote:
I haven't heard of open theism before.
I'm in Hebrews right now, so a lot of my thinking about who God is, is affected by that book at the moment. Heb. 1:1-4 is the author's way to grab our attention and get us to see that Jesus, not only is God, but that He is also the provider of purification for our sins. And let me tell you, I need that.
See for me, a lot of who God is, makes sense to me in the context of His promises to save us from our sins if we repent and believe in Him. God repeatedly promises to save us to the uttermost, to be the anchor of our soul, to never leave us nor forsake us, etc... He can only make those promises if He is completely in control and has full knowledge of the past, present, and future.
One way its been explained to me is that God is outside of time. He exists in eternity, which means that finite time is like a filmstrip that He is standing back and looking at. He can see all points on the time line all at once. And this is no problem for Him because He is infinite. Our little minds would just be blown by the thought of such an experience. But being the creator of all, even time, it's no big deal for Him.
Anyway all that to illustrate that when God makes a promise, He's actually able to keep it because He has existed before, during and after time. And since God cannot lie, then I can trust His promises and know that He will save me forever.
Let me know if this doesn't make sense.
--doug ><>
On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 10:55 PM, Doug wrote:
I haven't heard of open theism before.
I'm in Hebrews right now, so a lot of my thinking about who God is, is affected by that book at the moment. Heb. 1:1-4 is the author's way to grab our attention and get us to see that Jesus, not only is God, but that He is also the provider of purification for our sins. And let me tell you, I need that.
See for me, a lot of who God is, makes sense to me in the context of His promises to save us from our sins if we repent and believe in Him. God repeatedly promises to save us to the uttermost, to be the anchor of our soul, to never leave us nor forsake us, etc... He can only make those promises if He is completely in control and has full knowledge of the past, present, and future.
One way its been explained to me is that God is outside of time. He exists in eternity, which means that finite time is like a filmstrip that He is standing back and looking at. He can see all points on the time line all at once. And this is no problem for Him because He is infinite. Our little minds would just be blown by the thought of such an experience. But being the creator of all, even time, it's no big deal for Him.
Anyway all that to illustrate that when God makes a promise, He's actually able to keep it because He has existed before, during and after time. And since God cannot lie, then I can trust His promises and know that He will save me forever.
Let me know if this doesn't make sense.
--doug ><>
Sunday, June 13, 2010
Email Apologetics 1
This starts a series of posts where I'm interacting with a friend of mine's dad. Its a great exchange. I hope you can benefit from this exchange as I have. I'll post the emails one at a time. I'm sanitizing the names. The first is from my friend.
From: Doug's Friend
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 8:33:40 PM
Subject: new question from Dad
Hi Doug (and Dad),
Just spoke with Dad on his way home from a weekend down the shore. I let him know that he has some e-mail waiting in his inbox. Dad asked another question:
"Does God know the future?"
This is clearly the leading question that an open theist (like Greg Boyd) would ask. My Dad remarked that if God does not know the future then "it gets Him off the hook" for alot of stuff.
I'll say this now: it's absolutely unorthodox. It is aberrant teaching in my opinion.
From: Doug's Friend
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2010 8:33:40 PM
Subject: new question from Dad
Hi Doug (and Dad),
Just spoke with Dad on his way home from a weekend down the shore. I let him know that he has some e-mail waiting in his inbox. Dad asked another question:
"Does God know the future?"
This is clearly the leading question that an open theist (like Greg Boyd) would ask. My Dad remarked that if God does not know the future then "it gets Him off the hook" for alot of stuff.
I'll say this now: it's absolutely unorthodox. It is aberrant teaching in my opinion.
Sunday, June 6, 2010
Hebrews 1:4-6 Jesus is greater than the angels
Hebrews 1:4-6 "4having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs. 5For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son, today I have begotten you"? Or again, "I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son"? 6And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God’s angels worship him.""
Observation/Interpretation:
Observation/Interpretation:
- Jesus is greater than all others. The author of Hebrews will start comparing/contrasting Jesus with Angels, and then move on to Moses and the Law.
- In this passage Jesus is better than angels because:
- Jesus has a better name. His name means "the Lord saves" This is a better name than Angel which is the word for messenger. If you're in deep trouble, wouldn't you rather have someone who can actually save you than someone who just tells you a message about it?
- Jesus is God's son. That's way better than an angel. Angels are not in the family of God, but are mere servants. Jesus is both God and the Son in the Trinity. This position is far higher than the angels
- Lastly Jesus is worshiped by the angels. Clearly the greater is worshiped by the lesser.
- Jesus is the greatest! I must worship Him.
- Jesus saves! I want to tell others about Him, and I want to know that I am saved. By the way what am I needing saving from? The wrath of God that I've earned by treasonously sinning against God the King (Luke 13). I can attain that salvation by repenting and believing. (Rom 10)
Monday, May 31, 2010
Hebrews 1:1-3
These are some cross posts from another blog I'm trying to get started with some friends of mine. We're trying to study Hebrews (or any scripture for that matter) in a blog format instead of email. Its not exactly taking off yet...
Hebrews 1:1-3: 1Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.He is the radiance of the glory of God and After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Observations/Interpretations:
Hebrews 1:1-3: 1Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power.He is the radiance of the glory of God and After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
Observations/Interpretations:
- The main point of the book of Hebrews is to tell us that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Jewish Old Testament prophets and law. The book starts out by saying we heard about God other ways in the past, but now we know about Him directly via Jesus.
- Jesus is the creative force that created the world. Similar to John 1:1-3.
- Jesus is God
- Jesus upholds every atom as it spins. He keeps the ratios between the strong and weak nuclear forces just right so that atoms don't fly apart and the universe collapses. He literally holds everything together.
- Jesus purified us from our sins, those who believe as we'll see later in the book, and now sits down next to the Father in heaven. This means that His work is finished once for all time.
- I must worship Jesus for His power, His Godhood, and His accomplishment of saving me
- I should take comfort in knowing that my salvation is complete and finished. That Jesus did it for me and I can rest in Him. I need to remember that every time I sin, and feel the temptation to redeem myself through petty acts of service
Thursday, April 8, 2010
Is this supposed to be a Gospel message?
Rob Bell has put another winner out on youtube:
Overall I don't care if he uses visual tricks, pumping music, and cool clothes. I don't particularly identify with it, but I lump that in with the "all things to all people that some might hear the Gospel". Similar to how I think we should translate the Bible to other languages, and dress appropriately to the culture so as not to offend.
That said here are a few of the things that most disturbed me. I'm trying hard to stick to the issues he brings up in the video. If any hint of distaste for Rob himself is interpreted, please know that I bear him personally no animosity. BUT I do carry much resentment for the concepts that he espouses and then tries to label as Christianity.
-- "If Death is all we have to look forward to, then Despair is our only hope." Before I get to the stuff I didn't like, I did want to point out that the beginning of his piece is pretty right on. I completely agree that without Christ despair is our only expectation. I would probably add that there's something more dangerous than despair though, and that's the judgment of God against sinners. It's not just this world we must fear, but the next. I may have a slightly different methodology so I don't mean to throw very hard stones at the 'despair' approach. However I don't know of any examples where Jesus started a witnessing encounter with a discussion of their despair. I know of many where He began by discussing their sin.
-- "This world matters to God, this world that God is restoring and Redeeming." This particular concept is rampant nowadays. Frankly the scripture support for this concept is very slim. In fact can anyone site an example where God says He's even going to keep this world? I thought He was going to create a new heavens and a new earth and destroy this one. In contrast to 'restoration' as the church's mission, the scriptural support for the church's mission as a disciple making body is much stronger. As far as I can tell, the main reason many churches have been pushing this 'restore the planet' agenda is because its much more appealing to the rest of the world than hearing a message about man's sin and need for a savior. Can anyone point to any examples in scripture where Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, or John recommended that we redeem the world politically or socioeconomically, apart from an out-growth of our desire and ability to share the gospel? Sure they took care of the poor, but they did it either for people who were already in the body, or as a gateway to share the gospel with them.
-- "Every act of good matters and will go on" This doesn't have any scriptural basis that I can think of. If anyone has any examples I'd be interested to hear it. On the other hand there are many verses that talk about how our works are nothing more than filthy rags. I think this message, like most of Rob's messages, are meant to be out-reach messages. Hearing this is very confusing if you don't know that your works can't contribute to your salvation. In fact i'd go so far as to say the confusion is dangerous. Because if you think you can earn your way to God's good side, then you are on the 'broad road leading to destruction'
-- "Everything that elevates the soul is a taste of what will be." This sparks very much of universalism. To me, I hear him implying: "Believe whatever makes you feel good and elevates you." On the other hand, Jesus was pretty clear that He was the Way, the Truth, and the Life. And that no one could come to the Father but through Him. If Rob is serious about presenting the gospel, why wouldn't he be clear about it? Why would he twist it to try and be more 'encompassing'. The gospel is quite narrow. Paul is pretty clear about this in most of his epistles because people kept trying to broaden it. The Galatians tried to add Judaism, the Corinthians tried to add pagan practices, the Greeks tried to add philosophy. Our current culture tries to add "everything" so that no one is left out. Instead we should be pointing to the scriptures which proclaim that there is only way to heaven, and that is via the propitiating sacrifice of Jesus for our sins.
Overall I don't care if he uses visual tricks, pumping music, and cool clothes. I don't particularly identify with it, but I lump that in with the "all things to all people that some might hear the Gospel". Similar to how I think we should translate the Bible to other languages, and dress appropriately to the culture so as not to offend.
That said here are a few of the things that most disturbed me. I'm trying hard to stick to the issues he brings up in the video. If any hint of distaste for Rob himself is interpreted, please know that I bear him personally no animosity. BUT I do carry much resentment for the concepts that he espouses and then tries to label as Christianity.
-- "If Death is all we have to look forward to, then Despair is our only hope." Before I get to the stuff I didn't like, I did want to point out that the beginning of his piece is pretty right on. I completely agree that without Christ despair is our only expectation. I would probably add that there's something more dangerous than despair though, and that's the judgment of God against sinners. It's not just this world we must fear, but the next. I may have a slightly different methodology so I don't mean to throw very hard stones at the 'despair' approach. However I don't know of any examples where Jesus started a witnessing encounter with a discussion of their despair. I know of many where He began by discussing their sin.
-- "This world matters to God, this world that God is restoring and Redeeming." This particular concept is rampant nowadays. Frankly the scripture support for this concept is very slim. In fact can anyone site an example where God says He's even going to keep this world? I thought He was going to create a new heavens and a new earth and destroy this one. In contrast to 'restoration' as the church's mission, the scriptural support for the church's mission as a disciple making body is much stronger. As far as I can tell, the main reason many churches have been pushing this 'restore the planet' agenda is because its much more appealing to the rest of the world than hearing a message about man's sin and need for a savior. Can anyone point to any examples in scripture where Jesus, Paul, Peter, James, or John recommended that we redeem the world politically or socioeconomically, apart from an out-growth of our desire and ability to share the gospel? Sure they took care of the poor, but they did it either for people who were already in the body, or as a gateway to share the gospel with them.
-- "Every act of good matters and will go on" This doesn't have any scriptural basis that I can think of. If anyone has any examples I'd be interested to hear it. On the other hand there are many verses that talk about how our works are nothing more than filthy rags. I think this message, like most of Rob's messages, are meant to be out-reach messages. Hearing this is very confusing if you don't know that your works can't contribute to your salvation. In fact i'd go so far as to say the confusion is dangerous. Because if you think you can earn your way to God's good side, then you are on the 'broad road leading to destruction'
-- "Everything that elevates the soul is a taste of what will be." This sparks very much of universalism. To me, I hear him implying: "Believe whatever makes you feel good and elevates you." On the other hand, Jesus was pretty clear that He was the Way, the Truth, and the Life. And that no one could come to the Father but through Him. If Rob is serious about presenting the gospel, why wouldn't he be clear about it? Why would he twist it to try and be more 'encompassing'. The gospel is quite narrow. Paul is pretty clear about this in most of his epistles because people kept trying to broaden it. The Galatians tried to add Judaism, the Corinthians tried to add pagan practices, the Greeks tried to add philosophy. Our current culture tries to add "everything" so that no one is left out. Instead we should be pointing to the scriptures which proclaim that there is only way to heaven, and that is via the propitiating sacrifice of Jesus for our sins.
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