Nooma 23

here's a youtube link to this embeded video:



its got what looks like Portuguese sub titles but audio is in English.

What bugs me most about nooma videos is the imprecision of the language. The statements sort of thrown out there to be 'provocative' instead of informative. Just some examples from my notes after watching this movie. I took the notes fast so I might not have quoted perfectly:

"its my field. why should I let them on to take my stuff? its not fair" this is true its not fair and it shouldn't be extrapolated in how to run a government or your office or some other secular organization. However the church is not the government, nor is my family the government. We should be generous. Not to those who are lazy. The scriptures quoted from Deut. 24:19-22 are very clear that its to be left for widows, orphans, and aliens. These are people who are incapable of providing for themselves. Someone could easily hear what Rob says and think that the government should be providing health care, social security, and other benefits for people who haven't earned them.

"liberation is unfair, freedom is unfair, redemption is unfair, grace is unfair, God isn't fair." This is quite a dangerous statement. To say that God isn't fair means He isn't just. Saying He isn't just is a violation of scripture and the nature of God. He is fair. He punished sin! He also provided mercy through His Son's atoning death on the Cross. Now I don't think He has to be fair in His distribution of Grace its up to Him. But just saying God's not fair without some caviots and clarifications can be horribly confusing to people.

"when you empower others in their oppression, whatever that looks like. we find out out about God's power to us" That's fruit-cake. If you're a Christian you might being doing God's will and therefor feel empowered to further serve. But if you're not then just being nice to someone will make you feel better and that's it. In fact it will damn you worse because you'll think that you're doing good things and assuaging the guilt you've earned for cheating on your wife or taxes. Its a very very dangerous thing to say and do just to be nice.

"ultimately life is about a larger truth to find suffering. do something about it or we'll be miserable. our education time and money will turn on us if we don't give it away" I don't even have the slightest idea what he's trying to say here. "Turn on us" what does that mean? Millions of people are just happy thank you very much to do whatever makes them feel good. Being nice for nice's sake or even other people's sake doesn't mean or do anything if its not done for God. In fact as I said in the one above it hoses you even more because it tricks you into thinking you're doing something of benefit to yourself.

"our lives are either about us, or about a different path. this is why Jesus taught about serving" What??!?! our lives are about us or a different path? Why not tell us what the path is? How does this distinguish Christians from PETA followers? Jesus didn't teach about serving as an end to itself. He took pity on others and taught compassion as a way to reach them for the Gospel. How many times did He use a miracle just to point out to the pharisees that their good work in serving others was totally meaningless b/c they did it for the wrong reasons!

"extend unfairness to others. your overflow to someone else's necessity. find someone who needs what you have, only to discover they have what you needed all along." Huh? I guess in a sense he's talking about capitalism. If I find someone with a need that I can fill, I can sell it to them and get money back which is something I need to procure other goods and services that will help me. Oh wait, that's not the point of this talk I guess... Other Humans have nothing, nothing that I need in an ultimate sense. I sure appreciate nice words occasionally and thanksgiving for shoveling the walk from snow. But JESUS has what I need. He is the one offering salvation and grace and wonder and joy and wisdom and completeness. Serving someone else doesn't offer those things.

More google reader discussion

Here's some more dialogue on my discussion on google reader. In this installment, the guy I'm talking to presents a very clear understanding of the horribleness of Hell. I frankly don't think many Christians understand how bad Hell is, let alone non-Christ followers.

I pray that my church, and other churches, would preach as clearly as this poor guy does about how terrible Hell really is. That people would recognize their danger and flee to Christ.
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Not-me:

Ok, I'm going to take a slightly different tack, and maybe you'll come to an understanding of why your position is morally indefensable. In 100 years, civilization will be nearly unrecognisable to the likes of you and me. If you were punished for this many years, compared to being punished for an infinite number of years, your punishment would not have even considered begun. After 100 periods of 100 years (10^4 y.), civilization WILL be completely unrecognisable to us. If you were punished for this many years, compared to being punished for an infinite number of years, your punishment would not even be considered as having started. After 100 periods of 10,000 years (10^6 y.), humanity itself will be unrecognisable to us. If you were punished for this many years, compared to being punished for an infinite number of years, your punishment would not even be considered as having started. After 100 periods of 1,000,000 years (10^8 y.), the world itself will not look like what our maps display. If you were punished for this many years, compared to being punished for an infinite number of years, your punishment would not even be considered as having started. After 100 periods of 100,000,000 years (10^10 y.), the world will be gone, swallowed by a sun turned red-giant and then diminished into a hard white dwarf. If you were punished for this many years, compared to being punished for an infinite number of years, your punishment would not even be considered as having started. After 100 periods of 10,000,000,000 years (10^12 y), our galaxy, having merged with Andromeda 98,000,000,000 years ago will have finally settled down into a peaceful eliptical galaxy, unrecognizable from the beautiful barred spiral it is today. If you were punished for this many years, compared to being punished for an infinite number of years, your punishment would not even be considered as having started. After 10^100 years, our universe will have come up against heat death. All but the very very very largest supermassive blackholes will have evaporated into random radiation; the protons and neutrons that make up all matter will have long since decayed into weak photons; there is nothing left but a thin gruel of electrons and neutrinos. If you were punished for this many years, compared to being punished for an infinite number of years, your punishment would not even be considered as having started. As a matter of fact, if you take 10^100 years, and turn up the punishment so that each year turns into 10^100 years (10^^100 years; or take 10, raise it to the power of a Googol, then take EACH '0' in the power and turn each and every one into 100 '0's) that's 10 raised to the power of a 1-with-ten-thousand-zeros-behind-it, That's a number so large as to be literally unimaginable. There are only 10^90 particles in the entire universe! If you were punished for this many years, compared to being punished for an infinite number of years, your punishment would not even be considered as having started. An infinity in hell is unconcionable, no matter what the sin is. No matter what. Ever.

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you:

Wow I really appreciate your understanding of the depths and length of the punishment involved in spending eternity in Hell. I don't think most believers, let alone non-Christ followers, grasp what you're saying here. Jesus called Hell Gehenna, which was a burning, filthy trash-pit outside of Jerusalem, that never stopped burning and was the foulest thing His hearers could grasp. I don't think it would be inaccurate at all to say your description/illustration parallels His. In a converse way you're describing how Holy God is by describing how terrible the punishment is. Just to turn around the last part of your argument: God is more Holy and perfect than 10^90 bits of information could describe. His perfection is greater than that even. Its this indescribable 'otherness' that makes sin, even small sin, so reprehensible and foul to Him, and why He must put it away from His presence. Incidentally, this makes His decision to send His Son to earth to die for us, completely mind blowing!!! Why would He do that? Why would He knowingly sacrifice His Son for people that had violated Him so powerfully. This is why I don't just follow some words in the Bible, or go to church on Sundays in order to get some morality in my life, or in order to be 'good' to my fellow man. I worship, and spend my life trying to love and obey Jesus in response to His great, un-comprehensible gift. I can't change your mind by arguing with you, though I do enjoy the challenge of your questions and thoughtful responses. All I can do is ask, no beg, you to look at how much you have sinned. And then use your understanding of Hell to bring you to a desire for rescue from that punishment. The Bible is true, God will not let those who have sinned against him to go un-punished. He is a just judge and must punish lawbreakers. It sounds like you've read the Bible before, so this challenge may sound silly, but read the gospel of John and watch how John portrays Jesus. John's goal in writing is to show that Jesus is/was God. Jesus is harsh with some, but kind and gentle with others. See yourself in Nicodemus in chapter 3, a smart guy who thought He understood, but needed Christ to point out His shortcomings to welcome Nic in. Look at the woman at the well in chapter 4 and see yourself in someone who has sinned greatly and to whom Jesus should not be talking to, but instead He does and shows her Great mercy. In John 5 recognize yourself in the lame man who could do nothing to heal or save himself without Jesus' help. I could go on, but I hope you see what I'm trying to say. The Holy Spirit uses scripture to change and soften hearts to the Gospel. I pray that He would do that for you, as He did for me.